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Friday, October 06, 2006

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» Modern day Iraq, or Vichy, France, in World War 2? (COMMENTS CONTAIN SPOILERS) from The Bildungsroman of Jacqueline Mackie Paisley Passey
(or more importantly -- carving fork or chopsticks???) Debate the various issues raised by the season 3 premiere of Battlestar Galactica in the comments! Update: A round up of some thoughts from around the blogosphere: Pissed off conservatives who think [Read More]

» On Battlestar Galactica Heroic Cylons Battle Vicio from Jon Swift
The heroes are a deeply religious race, called the Cylons, who struggle to bring democratic ideals and Christian values to a planet called New Caprica (Iraq, of course) in the face of an increasingly violent insurgency. [Read More]

Comments

romablog

Disagreeing on the war doesn't equate to insulting the troops. You should know that.

Christopher Fotos

Thanks--had no idea.

Paul


I say just wait....all the DailyKos kooks that are praising the show today will suddenly be frothing at the mouth when the show turns accepted conventions on its head, as it has a tendency to do. Ron Moore has spoken many times about not presenting just simplistic view of a situation.

So I say wait - what the DailyKos krowd is cheering today, they'll be turning on BSG like rabid dogs as soon as the show flips the situation.

Donald R.McClarey

I watched the episode and I found the references to the "insurgents" nauseating. However a few additional points:

1. A strong portion of the show was an on-going debate about the morality of suicide bombings with most of the "good-guy" characters ultimately against it, except Colonel Ti who is hardly held up as a moral exemplar on the show.

2. As a tactic suicide bombing in this case would make no sense. The humans have a limited population and they are fighting robotic enemies with an endless supply of troops. Killing humans while having virtually nil impact on the enemy is ludicrous. The fact that the cylons were even concerned about this tactic made little sense, especially the cylons skeptical about the New Caprica experiment.

3. If this an attempt to make a political statement, and I am not certain about that since I think the show may be attempting to make a different point, I think it fails because the Iraq and New Caprica situations are simply too different. Once one reflects for a moment on the differences, the poltical point, if there is one, falls apart.

Jonathan Brown

As a conservative / libertarian, I think it is far too premature for conservatives to attach BSG because this week's storyline isn't as comfy as last time. Yes, it could become an hour-long DNC ad, and they could lose half their audience. I think the show if far too smart for that.
I would point out
1. Good SciFi is supposed to make people think and discuss things. I see a lot of discussion. Fact is, things ARE frakked up in IRAQ, an insurgency was creeated in large part due to Bush administration incompetence and shooting the messenger won't change that. We do need to talk more about what we want as an outcome and how/if we can realistically get it.
2. The show raises/ has raised issues that cut ther other way. The fact that the humans are on an occupied world at all because they got complacent and/or tired of fighing the fanatical cylons and let their guard down is at least equally worthy of discussion. Also, I remember a previous storyline in which a human "make peace with the cylons" group turned out to be secretly run by a cylon playing them for fools.
If it makes both sides howl, it's probably doing a pretty good job.

IntransigentPatriot

http://jonswift.blogspot.com/2006/10/on-battlestar-galactica-heroic-cylons.html

I think you may be overreacting to the rantings of a few loonie lefties.

Jon Swift's blog shows us a correct, conservative interpretation of Battlestar Galactica:

"I was very surprised to see a pro-Iraq War, pro-Christian series on television and I urge you to see it before liberals get it taken off the air, although I have noticed that some people on both the right and the left don't seem to get the show and have misunderstood the allegory completely."

bargal20

This wouldn't have happened if John Milius had been available to liberate Battlestar Galactica instead of serving bravely with Skeet Urlich and the rest of the new wolverines in Jericho.

TJIC

The writing of the first episode of season 3 was *so* bad - instead of just setting up one or two minor parallels and letting anyone who wants to see an analogy draw it for themselves, they bash the viewer over the head with

Christopher Fotos

I may post on this later, but two things--1. Thanks for the comments, and B. check Jonah Goldberg's column which seems about right to me. Goldberg says the Iraq melodrama is reigned in on future episodes; I confess that for myself the damage is done.

Christopher Fotos

Excerpt from Goldberg:

I think [topicaltiy, particularly this Iraq topicality] it’s stupid for two reasons. First, it’s just way too forced. For example, when Brother Cavil (Dean Stockwell) goes off on the stupidity of the invasion he breaks the imaginary wall between the audience and the BSGverse. He says something to the effect of “What did you expect? Did you think we’d be greeted as liberators...oh forget it.” Everybody in the audience understands this was a shot at the notion America would be greeted with flowers. It was too much. Indeed, the whole first hour seemed to wallow in self-congratulation that they were going to carry this moral equivalence nonsense far beyond the point when the viewer says “I get it already.”

Second: It’s a really, really stupid comparison. American troops aren’t Cylons, the human population of New Caprica wasn’t living under the tyranny of a Saddam Hussein, Iraqis aren’t the last surviving remnant of humanity, there’s no evidence – so far – the Cylons ever intended to do right by the citizens of New Caprica, and so on.

By succumbing to the temptation to seem “relevant” the producers sacrificed much of the literary quality of BSG to score fairly sophomoric polemic points along the lines of “one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter.” By my lights this sort of thing the greatest sin imaginable in the world of scifi and fantasy.

Christopher Fotos

although I have noticed that some people on both the right and the left don't seem to get the show

As I said at that blog, not my favorite form of analysis.

Still a BSG fan???

It became nauseatingly familiar when this Hollywood production turned to the tired old liberal whipping boy topic of Iraq. The dominatrix female leads and pretty boy co-stars should be enough for these libs. Keep the politics out of it. I will be boycotting the series until the end of the season. If reviews reflect a return to sanity from this liberal bashing of the war on terror, I MAY consider looking at some reruns. However, they have lost me as a regular viewer. P.S.: I am a huge fan of SciFi (particularly the George Pal/Iassic Asimov type).

chris mankey

t became nauseatingly familiar when this Hollywood production turned to the tired old liberal whipping boy topic of Iraq. The dominatrix female leads and pretty boy co-stars should be enough for these libs.

What a tiresome fucking response. Ole liberal whipping boy of iraq. I guess 70% of americans may be liberal at this point! Support for this fiasco seems to be waning.

Dave

Maybe the show is trying to make that point that the tactics used in war aren't really what's important, but rather the philosophies driving the conflict. Just because the Humans are using tactics currently employed by Iraqi insurgents doesn't mean that Ron Moore is America bashing and appeasing our enemies. I generally support the Iraq War, but I quite like how BSG challenges the audience to not view war so monolithically.

bv

As far as occupations go everything covered in Galactica its all pretty normal. While the writers are dancing near the Iraq they are not drawing a strong enough parallel to equate the USA to the cylons. The outcome seems a bit more like the french resistance than islamic terorists. They however are dancing close enough to keep people thinking, and that is a good thing.

The concept of blind obedience or censorship is un-American. Even if our enemies feel our debate of morality is a weakness, it is what separates us from them. Do we throw the baby out with the bathwater and become our enemies to defeat them???

Christopher Fotos

The concept of blind obedience or censorship is un-American

What would be an example of censorship?

As for blind obedience, I don't roll over and join the fan club just because a show has cool special effects.

hyh

Okay, I know I'm probably going to be bashed on this conservative blog....but we as the human race have the OBLIGATION to sympathize.

Do we not agree that the majority of the casualties in Iraq are civilians? Do we not agree that *civilians* in Iraq are pretty much like civilians everywhere else in the world, including the States?

So, if you agree to those two arguments, then do we not agree that the harming of the civilian poplation, whether it's intentional or not, whether it's an unknown family in Iraq, or Cally (Chief Tyrol's wife) or someone in your own family, is wrong for whatever reason?

And if you agree that the *population* has the right to resist such harm and the population does not have the arms to do so, do we not agree that such resistance is valid?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that I condone Osama or anything, but as a human being, we have the mandatory obligation to examime the harm we are doing to other human beings. Don't be a coward and shy away from this.

Christopher Fotos

We have an obligation to sympathize...with what?

So, if you agree to those two arguments, then do we not agree that the harming of the civilian poplation, whether it's intentional or not, whether it's an unknown family in Iraq, or Cally (Chief Tyrol's wife) or someone in your own family, is wrong for whatever reason?

If by wrong you mean innocent civilians should be protected whenever possible, of course.

If by wrong you mean American forces can never attack anyone if any innocent civilians will be harmed or killed, no, of course not. To believe that is to disarm the entire military, which is exactly what terrorists aim for. All that hilarious Hezbollah screaming about civilian casualties in Lebanon was premised on that very concept--like many of the terrorists in Iraq, they deliberately mingle with civilians to generate exactly the reaction provided by you.

War sucks. Many of us think it's better than suicide, however.

Do we not agree that the majority of the casualties in Iraq are civilians?

Yes, that has to be true. The overwhelming majority of which have been killed by terrorists. That's what the overly subtle/clever/shades-of-gray Hollywood guys don't get.

Victor - the unknown soldier

Hey guys,i stumbled across this blog, just wanted to give my 2 cents

Im a US Soldier currently serving in Iraq, and I would like to point out that the "New Caprica Police" wear the EXACT same uniforms on the show as the Iraqi Police Force wear over here (except for the NCP shoulder badge of course). Its true, they even wear the ski masks to conceal thier idenities.

The similarities almost made me choke when i saw them on the show.
Im not exactly sure what BSG is trying to say here, but I wish theyd leave real world politics out of it and concentrate on making a good scifi series like the first two seasons were

Christopher Fotos

Victor, first of all, thanks for putting your life on the line.

Second, I had no idea about the similarity in uniforms--that's fascinating, in a depressing kind of way. But when you say the similarities almost made me choke when I saw them on the show, this is very much what I had in mind when I wrote this post: The image of American soldiers looking for some R&R in an impressively produced Sci-Fi production, only to realize they were being slandered as oppressors.

denis mc-myers

Hey everyone, i'm a soldier just come back from iraq - and have been catching up on galactica. Only just in the middle of season 3. My take on all of this, is that as soldiers we don't really have a choice. But for the rest of my life I will know that i've been on the other side of humanity. You may take pride that "your" soldiers are out there, but we're out there giving our souls to evil for free - Bush made the wrong decision and i've had first hand experience that we were not even fighting for democracy but for pure greed.

Brian

thats a funny viewpoint of the show considering the weak, anti-war people in the show were the ones who wanted to "give up the mission" of finding earth.

as one who has served in Iraq, it is easy to see form afar those who are swayed by the media and directed like cattle.

I've had first hand experience to see the good that is being done out there. for those who have only watched the couple episodes where the people abandoned the mission to hang out on the plannet to make peace, if you keep watching, you see how fracked up things get for them. also if you had watched earler in the series, you would see how the cylons have an agent in the media pushing their agenda to push public opinion. but then again, the anti-war people here probably don't have the stomach to look at the whole picture, just their little small-worldly view of what they think is right.

Kirsteneb

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ClubPenguinCheats

The humans have a limited population and they are fighting robotic enemies with an endless supply of troops. Killing humans while having virtually nil impact on the enemy is ludicrous. The fact that the cylons were even concerned about this tactic made little sense, especially the cylons skeptical about the New Caprica experiment.

stretch marks

Aw such a nasty one eh? Battlestar gallactica can now rest.

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